Oliver Thewalt

    Oliver Thewalt

    Theoretical Physics | Quantum Biology | Dark Matter Research | Energy Consulting | Creation of Hydrogen ATOM in the Higgs Field >> Vote for Nobel Prize

    Genetics, Human Migration, and the Sociology of Race

    https://plus.google.com/u/0/+OliverThewalt/posts/BUZQo45TCBt

     

     

    Comments by DuJuan Ross and Oliver Thewalt about:

    Genetics, Human Migration, and the Sociology of Race

    Introduction
    In today’s polyglot society, with so many ethnic groups intermixing, we need to make students realize that there is only one Human Race. When we encourage students to start thinking of themselves as one, all related, they can recognize and overcome discrimination and view each other as equals, respectfully
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    This lesson combines several online resources and some literature to help explore this topic. Students should come to understand their own preconceptions about themselves and others.

    There are several parts to teaching this lesson. You will need specific background information and scientific concepts, including the benchmarks, to adequately teach the content area and foster discussion.


    http://sciencenetlinks.com/student-teacher-sheets/genetics-human-migration-and-sociology-race/

    https://www.facebook.com/dujuan.ross/posts/10210000856961761


    https://www.facebook.com/oliver.thewalt/posts/10154256169061473


    DuJuan Ross:

    I'd wondered for the longest while,what single monumental event could've led to Academia's Zero Tolerance Policy verboten-ness on #Race as it pertains to #Anthropology. One of the least likeliest culprits had I concluded could be #Richard #Lewontin,and what has since been adversarially dubbed 'Lewontin's Fallacy'.In the 1972 study "The Apportionment of Human Diversity", Richard Lewontin performed a fixation index (FST) statistical analysis using 17 markers, including blood group proteins, from individuals across classically defined "races" (#Caucasian, #African, #Mongoloid, #South #Asian #Aborigines, #Amerinds, #Oceanians, and, #Australian #Aborigines). He found that the majority of the total genetic variation between humans (i.e., of the 0.1% of #DNA that varies between individuals), 85.4%, is found within populations, 8.3% of the variation is found between populations within a "race", and only 6.3% was found to account for the racial classification. A number of later studies had confirmed his findings. Based on this analysis, #Lewontin concluded, 


    "Since such racial classification is now seen to be of virtually no #genetic or #taxonomic #significance either, no justification can be offered for its continuance."

    This argument has SINCE been cited as evidence that racial categories are biologically meaningless, and that behavioral differences between groups cannot have any genetic underpinnings;an idea that slowly but surely has straitjacketed true argumention   ---     even forensics analysis  ---    any vigorous academic discourse on race and heredity....!.... A PRIMARY example being the "Statement on 'Race'" published by the American Anthropological Association in 1998 which rejected the existence of races as unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups...!   ----    BUT,the question lingered:WHO'S COUNTING ALLELES?   ---

    His chief nemesis,a Dr.     #Edwards      argued that while    #Lewontin    's statements on variability are correct when examining the frequency of different alleles (variants of a particular gene) at an individual locus (the location of a particular gene) between individuals, it is nonetheless possible to classify individuals into different racial groups with an accuracy that approaches 100 percent when one takes into account the frequency of the alleles at several loci at the same time. This happens because differences in the frequency of alleles at different loci are correlated across populations — the alleles that are more frequent in a population at two or more loci are correlated when we consider the two populations simultaneously. Or in other words, the frequency of the alleles tends to cluster differently for different populations.

    In Edwards's words, "most of the information that distinguishes populations is hidden in the correlation structure of the data." These relationships can be extracted using commonly used ordination and cluster analysis techniques. Edwards argued that, even if the probability of misclassifying an individual based on the frequency of alleles at a single locus is as high as 30 percent (as Lewontin reported in 1972), the misclassification probability becomes close to zero IF enough loci are studied.


    Oliver Thewalt hmm, yes, very interesting, it is less about your comment but I see no point, neither by Lewontin nor by Edwards - what do they want to say by this? And every statement in science is to be put in relation to an initial formulation of a question or goal?!

    I mean h.sapiens has no races, period, but it might not be impossible by a highly data driven effort to apply a stochastic probablilty distribution in order to classify data for special purposes - but every result is not just valid - it creates what the interrogator wanted to create, what does neither mean that it is, depending on the goal, for instance forensics, necessarily wrong, but it definitely cannot deliver any hard, irrefutable proof    ---   
    On the other hand, that h.sapiens has no races does not mean that there is no cultural, geographic or by climate and so forth induced adaption to an environment -- - but this happens all the time for all species, on Earth and beyond.

    In order to say this in a nutshell: you do not need science in order to be aware of some core aspects about this topic.

    I am happy that one day there will be one-way tickets to Mars available for those scientists :-)


    DuJuan Ross: There are palpable, and cogent definiendums for the term HAPLOTYPE in science.That doesnt obviate its plausibility as a classification parametric.Ethnic groups exist.And the 6.3% variance that even race- detractors admit to isnt the same as a ZERO http://valuation.It means that there is some substantive value designate that may consistently be seen to variegate humans along race classificatory lines, however slight.Five categories? Sixteen? Which discipline is observing?...


    Oliver Thewalt:  "Edwards argued that, even if the probability of misclassifying an #individual based on the #frequency of #alleles at a single locus is as high as 30 percent (as Lewontin reported in 1972), the #misclassification#probability becomes close to# zero IF enough #loci are studied."

    so what? Nature has shown us that the probability is never zero, and this pre-classification is arbitrary!


    Oliver Thewalt Be aware that this is a A POSTERIORI analysis ...

     

    DuJuan Ross Lewontin himself later subjected the data to GWAS analysis and leveled hypothetico deductive methodology against his own initial results insodoing.

     

    Oliver Thewalt   Anyway, it is just about an anthropocentric belief, nature is not "creating" races or species at all, this is just a narrow belief - there is a huge amount of pheno- and genotypes and (undiscovered) branches, this is just a human classification .... but this will not prevent us from applying a deeply rooted prejudice mechanism .. which is necessary in nature for a fast friend-foe or trust-mistrust detection - we are all little racists ..i would not trust someone who denies this ..... I agree that there is no need for a romanticing ...... but there is also no need for an anthropocentric approach in science.


    Oliver Thewalt  I should add that this for instance friend-foe detection is not specifically based on (imaginary) races.

     

    DuJuan Ross  You've articulated a deep-seated fear based on a sociopolitical tragedy you happened to be close to from birth.I understand this trepidation.But as Ive stated...it us NOT nor has it EVER BEEN the mere acknowledgment of subgroup differentiation that caused the great woeful strife.The pernicious - ism happens when we hierarchicalize the variances...saying that some are worthier...others: worthless.There is no truth to this fascist lie.But putting on blinders is no deterrent.

    DuJuan Ross  Commonly do Anthropological pathobiologists determine the RACE....gender...and other traits of severe arson decedents....There is a toolkit that uses allelic markers to do so.


    Oliver Thewalt  Yes, I do not deny that this is possible or going on, but be always cautious with conclusions or the reason why they are doing this --- this is of no importance for nature but for some people within a specific culture ..... it is goal driven anyway ..... PKD (Philip K. Dick) said as an allegory:

    Quote: "Just because I'm slightly paranoid doesn't mean that the Government does not come after me...".

    (Remark: this was a METATPHORIC Quote and I should have known that it could cause some confusions in this context...!  the word "paranoid" is misleading here, I did  not at all intend to point out any paranoia related area, but to use the inner logic of this quote in the meaning of: just because I am concerned that science is not representing nature here, I am not biased by the arguement itself - in history of for instance prosecution of criminals or forensics this really happened!)


    Yes, I am male, white and live in Germany of the year 2016 .... yes I am using a computer, have watched TV shows and Hollywood movies and visited a school in a western education system .. now read those comments once again, do you think that I have learned this in school or that someone has taught me this .. or may be I have read this somewhere? No?

    https://plus.google.com/116175168820229445752/posts/Z3g9pjdigdh

     

    DuJuan Ross Gods were.Supernature altogether was.Nature was not.Nature demands to be inspected beneath powerful lenses of both microscopy and telescopy  ---   without distortion  ...w  ithout agendas to conceal uncomfortable truths for fear of HOW THEY MAY BE MISUSED....We need to keep a watchful eye on users of data always.  But its also my goal as Empiricist thinker to call propaganda what it is, even when it wants to dress itself up in the fantastic habiliments of a righteous campaign....Epigenetics and genomic data epistemology yet toddles in infancy. Its http://complex.So much of it: unchartered terrain.Propagandists from Ivy League bastions under the aegis of P.C. can and do,easily spout the canard that race is a nonesuch,and cook up unsearchable stews of alphabet-soup that confounds realistic data-gathering even while ALLELES DON'T LIE.  ---   Statistics,do.Because there are a multiplicity of ways to present complex evidence...I'm waiting for these Overlords Of Liberal Propaganda next to tell us that dog breeds are fictional....

     


    DuJuan Ross  BTW....I am not calling you paranoid.You are privvy to de facto Truths in re Man's Humanity that I will only ever experience vicariously and with heavy heart.

    (Remark: Now Mr.  Ross is drifting off - but it was my fault that  it happened - i should have known that the PKD Quote could be misunderstood in this context!)


    Oliver Thewalt Yes, this quote was just meant in the sense of an allegory .. I should have added that you need to abstract from the specific topic .... meaning that "just because we are able to detect data driven evidence for races in alleles (which I do not deny) this does not mean that they exist in nature as such (means: it is obvious that it happens ...... everythere .. this mechanism of a local adaption to an environment is kind of omnipresent .. but there is quorum sensing and entanglement as well ;-) I mean life is able to exist by this anyway.


    DuJuan Ross In all other animal types,subtypal differences exist   -   whether quadrupedal,   bipedal,centripedal,etc.  -----   these are not merely detectable based on superficial inspection.The superficial traits mean nothing.I could even tell you THAT ground squirrels cannot mate with red squirrels and explain why based on SELECTION.But,your refutation for human variance clearly demarcated by haplospecific variance,YOU have a problem http://with.So how am I to believe the yardstick you're using isn't suspect?

     

    Oliver Thewalt I do not refute human variance --- I refute human INTERPRETATION of this - is there a non-sophistic argument in science? I am not using a yardstick   - .....

    DuJuan Ross The term HAPLOTYPE...in science is known to have multiple interpretations.Linnaeus and Haeckel made several gaffes in classifying species.But the totality of their surmises arent disposable simply because some errors have shown up over time.Taxonomy and clades are still categorizable in spite of them.

     

     

    Oliver Thewalt The simplest argument I can give you is that, if those people would have existed 13 billion Earth years ago and had the task to calculate whether you would exist one day, they had given huge evidence and many of those zero failure possibility statements that you will never exist - and this might really have happened when they would have been asked at this point of time ..... but you exist - are you sure that you exist?! Well, I am! But they would refute your existence as an illusion - this is my yardstick .......


    DuJuan Ross When I consider secular interpretations of a concept...I tend to ask: what is the raison d' etre of the interpreter?  THAT is commonsensical to launch inquiry into.What I cannot concern myself with is how a given fact may be subverted in such a way as to propagandize a pernicious agenda that works as a fatal wedge to upend desired civic harmony.Thats a philosophical debate separate from clinical research.

     

    Oliver Thewalt  Yes, dear DuJuan, I know ....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OARGZ1xXCxs


    DuJuan Ross Oh?...How does population genetics and heterozygosity relate to anything postulated by Bishop Berkely in re Objective Reality???

     

    Oliver Thewalt ... this, dear DuJuan I cannot explain to myself how this has happened ... how did this happen that they blocked your mind ...

     

    DuJuan Ross Im the one keeping on topic.Its you who have veered from it to a famous Indian mathematician who contemplated the efficacy of Realism.If he had something to offer regarding hybrid vigor or fitness underdominance or even any of the issues relative to codifying race....surely youd vouchsafe it.Correct??

     


    DuJuan Ross Why the topical shell game???

    DuJuan Ross Look at your paragraph: " the simplest argument.."...I had hoped this was something like a counterfactual position you were priming...But its...adrift.Why?

     


    DuJuan Ross I can only guess but, is the argument you wish to approach by hearkening back 13 billion Earth years something like...Race does not exist and guess what?! NOTHING ELSE PROBABLY DOES EITHER?...

     


    Oliver Thewalt: make a mind experiment: 2 groups of people - say red and green .. the red ones have more power and decide to eliminate the green ones - they start to infiltrate public opinion and information channels and so forth -- finally, after accessing the data for all, it becomes obvious that when merging red and green, colors were wiped out and they all fear to become white, because white is a dangerous state for them - they would become camouflaged and for some reason this is a threat - say no sufficient sight or detection - the data are alll true, proven by science - but the red ones have the same proportion of causation at this as the green ones and the possibility of slight color changes was somehow neglected, it was not zero - and finally, they wiped out all the green ones - after some decades noone "green" was left, and some years later, all information about them was erased - some years later nobody on this planet has ever known about the green ones, no more entry in textbooks - not one grain of dust was left - the science was perfect, mathematicians proved before this that they were correct, what was overlooked is that it is an analysis on an A Posteriori data set - this would not have worked as an a priori quantum biology approach - and then, decades later, after there was nothing left, a "red" mother gets twins, a sligthly green one and a slightly blue one, a sensation .... this was postulated as the first time that this has happened .. everbody believed, sure some of them didin't but they are all dead, live in poverty in the forest or cannot afford a computer, are tortured to death and so forth ... wow, a green one brings then 1 billion dollar ...o_O

    --

    I know that this is not the full story, I could work out a more detailed and scientific paper, give me staff, equipment and a Professorship and I give myself the willingness to this in a step by step approach and this model you presented (not you personally, the authors) will vanish into the sad void of the Land of Mad Scientists who claimed to improve the world .....

    .....

    And the probablity is not zero, because it depends on the definiton of a RACE -- this is arbitrary, I can say that one phenotype, when observed during his life by FULL data amplitude can produce Yottabytes of data and establish a set of projected anticipations for possible branches and evolutionary developments in view to a changing environment and transport, let's say on Earth, in climate zones and so forth ... now take a super cluster and aggregate the data from 1 to 2 from 2 to 3, to more , create groups and establish density matrices ,,, and so forth, you will have millions of subraces in categories, however you wish, and cross races ....miscegenation scenarios....
    It is a matter of effort and your goal.
    -----

    I was never adrift ....... read it again please ....

     

    DuJuan Ross The hypothetical you've just outlined is germane to topic, certainly.But you left out such an analogy to tether to the matter of race antagonism early on.I think what youve adumbrated is a carefully crafted Slippery Slope.Yet...we know that under certain conditions such fears CAN be made real.


    Oliver Thewalt well, it happens all the time, NOW please get this; I have no fear about this, not specifically, I just think that it is sad to observe, would not create even such ideas for research, but they do, do you know why? Fear and greed,,,,,,,


    DuJuan Ross Founder mutations cede traits in sub-populations that can either turn out ADVANTAGEOUS by heterozygosity.Or DELETERIOUS when homozygous.A third alternative is NULL.It just so happens that this is the nature of how mutation acts on Biology.Im not advocating any supremacy concerning mutational advantage.All I do is point to their extancy.

     

    Oliver Thewalt Yes, but can you predict the result with a zero error quote BEFORE this "process", even locally?

     

    DuJuan Ross I'm not looking for percentileperfection.Im following patterns of frequency.Anomalies happen.Rules do encounter exceptions. But exceptions don't nullify Rules.

     

    15. Mai um 21:07
    Oliver Thewalt
    Oliver Thewalt Yes, in quantum biology there are no such rules, in physics there are no laws ..... strange how they managed to establish hardly understood laws before they understood the "meta plane" a bit more profoundly, Newton, Einstein and so forth, not only incomplete but partly misleading (quantization of "space-time") ...... the same in biology, oh, wait, where are all the biologists? https://sandwalk.blogspot.de/2007/01/central-dogma-of-molecular-biology.html :-)

     

    Oliver Thewalt Yes, this is the problem which we created by calling the ghosts of reason .. and it needs to keep a watching brief over it!